The look v similar - is there any truth in the *story* they are made in the same factory, or is that just BS?
Anyone tried both can comment on the differences

Chin Chin!

PS
I esp mean the wave sails eg Icon compared with Eclipse...Thanks!

This should help: [www.boardseekermag.com]

OK they may or may not be "constructed" in the same factory but that's hardly an issue these days there are not many factories making sails.

What is true is that the Goya designer - Jason Diffin - used to be the main man at Simmer. So there is going to be some kind of similarity in feel between the newer goyas and older simmers.

Personally im not keen on either but definatley prefer the Guru to the Eclipse and the eclipse to the Icon in that order- but they are all good - just different - no slur meant on either.

For me i bought Np Zones 'cos i liked 'em best

Laters
Eddie

Thanks for the feedback - i assume with the same designer (Diffin) pedigree they are going to be very similar. Was just curious to know how independent they really were...they certainly appear quite similar but that might explain it.

The Bseeker test would suggest the Icon is a little more refined in the upper wind limit than the Eclipse (?)...albeit there was an issue with the mast in the test so i guess thats hard to judge.

Gonna swap my ageing sails in for some (Eclipse or Icon) later this yr i reckon when the 2011s come out.
My heart says Eclipse cos they look sooo pretty, head says Icon!

Not so keen on Prydes for some unfathomable reason....and the Zones are def too light for my dumbass skills - i likes a bit of grunt, haha!

I've been a Simmer-Sails team rider for 4 yrs (predominantly on Icons) and I am now a Goya-Sails team rider since a year on the eclipse. Hence, I hope my experience counts for something. I find the differences between both sails to be large:

1) The Icons I sailed (up to 2009 model) had good un-tuned range; just stick your mast in, apply whatever down haul you think is required that day, slap on your boom, out haul, and the sail works. Very nice, but doesn't necessarily give top-notch performance. Of course if it's rigged properly, the sail worked way better (duh.. any sail does ya?!), but it did the job well when sloppy-rigged too. The eclipse on the other hand absolutely requires proper rigging; especially down haul! It's the down haul that gives the eclipse the tension it needs and you just fine-trim it over the out haul. Rather more down haul then less! I use the correct 2010 Goya Masts with the 2010 eclipse. Once rigged proper the eclipse is a power hungry animal

2) The eclipse's wind range is HUGE. It completely out performs the Icon both in low and high end wind range!

3) I also find the eclipse to be more direct, lighter, stable and having a lot more forward drive than the Icon. This translates on being able to use a sail size smaller in most conditions than you'd be used too! The Icon was certainly more forgiving and easier to sail/use. But once you have the eclipse dialed in it is more rewarding. Just rig it properly!!

4) That said, both sails have Jason's trade mark "stretch control" and therefore they may look somewhat similar. But, that's where it ends. The eclipse is direct, high tension, huge wind range; the Icon is more spongy, easier and more forgiving.

5) Durability is probably the same.

6) Both sails work well from flat water to massive waves, from onshore to side-off. The less direct ("spongy" feeling of the icon makes it easier in the hands when sailing chop(hell), but the feather light direct feel of the Eclipse is hard to beat too... it all depends on what you prefer I guess.

I hope this helps!

I've been sailing Goya sails now for the past four years. Since Jason diffin arrived from simmer the sails are in a different league.
I've got the 2009 3d's and find them nice and powerful, very direct, and have a huge wind range. Apparently the 2010 eclipse and guru
are a little bit more forgiving due to the stretch control. A friend of mine uses the guru's and loves them.
I havnt heard anyone say a bad thing about these new diffin sails.
I can without a doubt whole hartedly recommend them

arnie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> 2) The eclipse's wind range is HUGE. It completely
> out performs the Icon both in low and high end
> wind range!


Ah, come on Arnie. Isn't "completely out performs" a bit to strong here? "Has an even broader range" or "gives slightly more performance in both high and low wind range" would have been more credible... If that was to be true, the Eclipse should have blown the competition away in every single wave-sail test out there, ah?

I've had a few Icons myself and really liked them. Very much agree with you that you could almost rig them in any manner and still they worked very well. My experience is also that the Icons had a very good wind range...

Also, some (a lot of...) credit is due to Simmer sail designer Tomas Persson when it comes to "stretch control" me thinks...

Continue to rip in Cali on your Goyas!

Aren't you comparing old Simmer's with new Goya's. The 2010 Simmer's are sick!

@ arnie - just to make sure, the last part of my former post says that I sure wish I could join you in California! Goya 2010 looks really good.

Hi, I have had the pleasure of using both the Simmer Icon 2010 and the Goya Eclipse 2010, both were 5.0m's. Sailed each for one session and concluded that they were both very good but that they were different. The Icon is a little softer in feel and generally more back handed, The Eclipse is a little more direct and pulls more from the front. Both look well made and both have stylish graphics in my opinion. Best bet is to try to demo both prior to purchase, failing that what ever you decision I don't think you will be disapointed.

Simmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aren't you comparing old Simmer's with new Goya's.
> The 2010 Simmer's are sick!

Nothing personal, but I don't think 2009/8 vs 2010 is really like comparing old vs new. Given the comments of others, my assessment of both sails seems rather correct.

I know the 2010 Simmers are very good. (There are no bad sails anymore these days except NPs...??? LOL, and I've been on Simmers for years so I know they're good!) But, so are the 2010 Goya's. Having sailed Simmers for many years, I know how they have progressed over time from model year to model year, like all sail brands. And as with all sails, those changes are noticeable but never "earth shaking". Hence, I am pretty sure the 2010 Simmer Icons are quit similar in feel, response, wind range etc compared to previous recent year models.

simmer down ladies.... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi, I have had the pleasure of using both the
> Simmer Icon 2010 and the Goya Eclipse 2010, both
> were 5.0m's. Sailed each for one session and
> concluded that they were both very good but that
> they were different. The Icon is a little softer
> in feel and generally more back handed, The
> Eclipse is a little more direct and pulls more
> from the front. Both look well made and both have
> stylish graphics in my opinion. Best bet is to
> try to demo both prior to purchase, failing that
> what ever you decision I don't think you will be
> disapointed.

Like I said; just more summarized so to say! In the end it all really boils down to what you like personally! Neither sail will disappoint if you pick the sail that has the feel, response, etc you like.

drm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> arnie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > 2) The eclipse's wind range is HUGE. It
> completely
> > out performs the Icon both in low and high end
> > wind range!
>
>
> Ah, come on Arnie. Isn't "completely out performs"
> a bit to strong here? "Has an even broader range"
> or "gives slightly more performance in both high
> and low wind range" would have been more
> credible... If that was to be true, the Eclipse
> should have blown the competition away in every
> single wave-sail test out there, ah?
>
> I've had a few Icons myself and really liked them.
> Very much agree with you that you could almost rig
> them in any manner and still they worked very
> well. My experience is also that the Icons had a
> very good wind range...
>
> Also, some (a lot of...) credit is due to Simmer
> sail designer Tomas Persson when it comes to
> "stretch control" me thinks...
>
> Continue to rip in Cali on your Goyas!


Interesting to see how one may trip over a choice of words... Regarding the test done here, comparing a sail rigged on the wrong mast vs. another sail rigged on the correct mast is really like comparing apples to oranges. A bad sail on good mast is still better than a good sail on a bad mast. Not saying Simmers are bad, not at all, they are good! It's just well-known that the right mast is absolutely key for any sail's performance.

And yes, I do think the Eclipse "completely out performs" the Icon in the low-end range and high-end wind range. This is not to be confused with how the sails perform in their normal wind-range. Both sails are overall good/great; just different feel etc to it.

Enough said, they guy just asked about people's experience, opinion and input. I've given mine, like it or not. Now let's go windsurf and have some fun instead of nitty-titty-word-picking on the web: it's not about being the best, but about having the best time! Regardless what gear you are on!

drm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ arnie - just to make sure, the last part of my
> former post says that I sure wish I could join you
> in California! Goya 2010 looks really good.


Thanks dude! It's all good!
aloha
arnie

Well, I'm a Simmer Mission fan, but just happen to have a pile of Goya/Amex gear for sale..
2010 stuff, in very good condition, all on ebay...

[shop.ebay.co.uk]

Cheers for all the replies. Are either of them (Simmer / Goya) very mast specific - will either work with other masts eg Ezzy skinnys does anyone know?

Curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cheers for all the replies. Are either of them
> (Simmer / Goya) very mast specific - will either
> work with other masts eg Ezzy skinnys does anyone
> know?

As far as I know, none of the are that mast specific. Of course they will perform best on their own masts, but this is what I know:

- Simmer works well on Amex URDM. I used it myself on both 07 Crossover and 08 Icons and XD, was very pleased.
- Simmers work well on Powerex, and I believe that the Powerex and Simmer bend curve are very similar

- In the Boards test of wave-sails, they actually tested the Goya sails with both Simmer and Ezzy masts (the Goya mast could not be provided with the test). It seems as if it performed a bit better on the Ezzy mast.

My experience with Simmer is that they are not that mast sensitive, they seem to work well with most "middle of the road" Constant Curve masts out there. But, given the choice an possibility, I would run them with Simmer masts.

Cheers Doc!

Preferably and ideally you'd want a simmer mast on your simmer sail and a goya mast on your goya sail. Don't hassle too much with masts... again a good sail on a bad/wrong mast is worse than a bad sail on a good/correct mast.

That said, Simmer and Powerex go very well together. Goya and No Limitz go very well together too (Goya masts are produced by No Limitz). Goya and Powerex don't go very well together. Since Ezzy masts are also produced by No Limitz, I suspect they go reasonably well together; the test and as mentioned here confirmed that. However, Goya masts are not equal to Ezzy masts are not equal to No Limitz masts....