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Tim
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
7 September '09 | 2:18pm
I think hot ice should reveal who he is too everyone!!

Good work on the tests though Adrian, best tests out there!
Hot Ice
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
7 September '09 | 7:53pm
I can understand the anger and I have apologised for some of my comments that I feel were OTT.

Unlike one person on this thread who resorts to language “ hot Ice: Shut up you f***king retard” that unfortunately appears to be tolerated by the forum moderator.

I enjoy this forum, and the videos and live competition reports on the site are excellent.

There is a danger though that some people, not myself I hasten to add, may be put off raising their head above the parapet.
Hot Ice
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
16 September '09 | 1:10pm
craigm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this Hot Ice guy in involved (as it seems) in
> the windsurfing trade, then this was a pretty
> unprofessional thing to write.
>
> Indeed, he just comes across as a very angry man
> who wants to rant a bit.
>
> If Adrian was as unprofessional as Hot Ice was,
> he'd have outed him and his business (to let us
> know who to avoid buying from).
>
> But he didn't, so gets the moral high ground on
> this one.
>
> Plus given the problems that "other" mags got in
> to in terms of their reputations when it was
> discovered that they were utterly making stuff up,
> or were required to only give perfect reviews in
> order to keep their exclusivity over being able to
> review certain brands, I think Adrian was wise to
> wait until he could sail the kit himself before
> issuing the review.
>
> I am sure he is coming under mega pressure from
> the brand importers to plug their kit in his
> reviews, but so far he seems to be charting a very
> factual and unbaised course, so criticism like
> this seems a bit OTT.


Hi Craigm

In my opinion there is always two sides to every story. Its very easy to think that something is outrageous. However if you care to listen to the other side of the story then it can appear completely different.

The statement by Adrian “Who knows, maybe you need some help with advertising to clear those Gaastra’s and Maui Sails that you over stocked on?” is complete and utter nonsense.

It’s very easy to jump to all the wrong conclusions when very angry. I suggest to you that I am not the only person that has come across as very angry.

As for your statement “he’d have outed him and his business (to let us know who to avoid buying from)” you are completely barking up the wrong tree.

I feel you have been rather unfair with your suggestion that other mags make stuff up when testing.

I do agree with you that my criticism seemed a bit OTT and for that I have apologized.
craigm
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
16 September '09 | 7:24pm
Sorry if you thought anything I said was out of order, I just read your post and thought it a totally unfair attack on what Adrian is doing with Boardseeker and so I said so.

As for other mags making stuff up - everyone has their own take on testing, and what goes on, and I am very much not "in the know", but I have over the years picked up on the odd thing in tests that doesn't quite seem right - no smoking gun, just my own personal take. Plus there was that story about a certain windsurfer of some repute in these isles allegedly catching out a certain mag over the length of time they spent (or didn't spend) on certain tests. Anyway, it is all speculation, allegation and conjecture, so is probably best left within the confines of my own conspiracy theory-addled brain.

All I was really trying to say is that the tests on Boardseeker seem to be clear in their objectives and their methodologies, and what comes out of them seems fair and balanced.

You are right there is no need for outing or boycotts, that was just the late-night caffine talking...
Hot Ice
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
27 September '09 | 5:25pm
craigm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry if you thought anything I said was out of
> order, I just read your post and thought it a
> totally unfair attack on what Adrian is doing with
> Boardseeker and so I said so.

Hi craigm

Fair enough.

As for tests, well that’s a minefield.

Windsurf magazines new test editor Dan Linton has produced good, clear, fair and balanced tests. The September issue had an interesting test on a range of different 2010 wave boards around 75 litres, an important size to many people. The October issue again has a good test on 2010 larger wave boards and wave sails in that important size 4.7. The timing of Windsurf magazines tests is spot on as we enter the Autumn and more radical conditions.

I think their idea of testing in EL Medano is excellent. Having sailed there many times the conditions are very varied, both in wind and sea state, and are very similar to the UK. The important difference being that there are more days available for testing in El Medano.

I wait with interest to see others testing of 2010 kit.
Churchy
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
28 September '09 | 12:06am
Dear Hot Ice,

If there is one thing more distasteful than a ranter who comes on a forum making derogatory comments about the efforts of those who try, it is someone who having been confronted then starts to backpeddle and then acuse others of being angry etc.

Weak man, very weak.

As for the moderator removing the profanities of your critic, I agree I would rather not see that sort of language. But then you had it coming.

My advice, with respect this forum is probably not for you. Suggest you move on over to the Boards forum where you will be welcomed by the other angry surfers who hide behind thier keyboards (messrs Basher/Fuller etc).

As for me, I too have witnessed (as I was involved) with Boards testing. Led by you know who! 6 guys gave almost identical feedback about the disspointing performance of one particular sail. The lead tester even agreed with us but wrote a report which could have been 'cut and pasted' from the manufacturers website.

I never took part in another test with them. I know of no one in the industry who rates or ever rated the results in that mag (previously know as Boards now known as the 'Monthly Dave White'!).

My response may seem a little harsh, but i got to say to you I honestly have no agenda here. I was very sceptical about Boardseeker testing and thought they were not taking it seriously with the 'clones' idea.

But I got to say, yep, best test reports I have seen in any UK or European mag. I also seen Bseeker test in Dutch mag! (is that right Ed?).
dougnut
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
28 September '09 | 8:16am
Mmmmm - have to say, ive read Sept and Oct windsurf and didnt think much of the Sail or Board tests; couldnt really make much sense of whats what.
adrian@boardseeker
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
28 September '09 | 10:35am
We are very close to releasing the first of our 2010 test reports (4.7 & 4.2 sails) - all testing finished, just writing up. We spend a good amount of time testing the gear, so its hard to be as quick as some of the other mags with the release of the tests. However thanks to the windy summer we have made really good progress. We are off up to Tiree at the weekend so should have everything finished off up there.

Yes you are right, the Clones are now featuring in Dutch Surf mag and German online mag windsurfersmag.de

Thanks,

Adrian
Toby
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
28 September '09 | 11:10am
I love the fact you guys are testing on local beaches, so good to get a perspective from the beaches most of us sail and in UK conditions....do you have plans to test the Simmer Mission and Blacktips in smaller sizes??

Tiree forecast looks good for the coming weekend, if it holds Crossapol could be epic!! Can't wait, hopefully have new kit to play on smiling smiley.
Hot Ice
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
29 September '09 | 11:32pm
Hi Churchy,

I respect your right to have a view entirely different from my own. Its allowed you know! In fact I welcome it.

It’s certainly clear to me that other people on this thread are angry and have been too quick to judge. The fact you can’t sense others anger and their highly misleading statements frankly amazes me.

I have apologized for some of my comments that I feel were OTT and please do not regard my apology as a sign of weakness. In my book to admit ones mistakes is a sign of strength. I feel I am not the only one who should apologize, especially when a finger of blame has been pointed at an entirely innocent third party.

You agree with me that this forum’s moderator should remove profanities and then you justify them by saying I had it coming. That's the worse excuse in the world. Those type of profanities simply would not be tolerated on any other windsurfing forum. Please remember this forum is also read by youngsters.

Your advice to go to another forum points to someone who is uncomfortable with criticism. It is not healthy to surround oneself with people who fall into the trap of always agreeing with each other. Maybe it is you who would be more comfortable on another forum.

To me you have a rather sad and twisted view of Boards magazine. Jealousy is a terrible thing. You also appear to have a hidden agenda. When someone says to me “I honestly have no agenda here” I think the opposite.

I share your initial skepticism about the clones. I feel the clones are a cheap gimmick taken from a popular TV show. Every time I look at their picture I just imagine someone wearing a blacked out goldfish bowl on their head. No doubt with goldfish swimming around in it where their brains should be. I can feel another apology coming on.

Boards and Windsurf have new test editors so its still early days. However I feel the Windsurf tests in their September and October issues have been good and in time to help people make decisions about new kit for the Autumn winds.

The Boardseekers earlier tests were in my opinion the best. My favourite was their freestyle board test and I thought it was excellent. Their last two tests frankly have been far too late. You may highly rate Boardseekers tests on kit that has been out almost a year, I don’t.
sad
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
30 September '09 | 8:05am
Hi,

This is a pretty shameful forum post. I don't think i have ever witnessed/read such a relentless rant ever. I think that who ever this person "hot ice" is should maybe go away, take a few minutes to breath, and find a girlfriend or something. I tell you one thing, if it was me working for a windsurfing mag and i broke my ankle i would be completely snapped. It takes ages to fix and when you just want to forget about windsurfing for a few months you can't... torture. have some compassion. Also do Maui sails even have an importer??? Whats the point of testing if you can't even get the stuff??

Anyway i think it is good boardseeker wont release a test without adran having used the gear. I wouldn't have thought the chief engineer of a nuclear plant signs that all is good to go without seeing all the info himself. Think about it hot ice and take a cold shower. cool that stuff down. I think Boards forum is the place.. You can all ceremoniously preach the joys of tushingham and rant about how starboard quads work. Leave this page to those who can...
readers of boardseeker
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
30 September '09 | 11:53am
hot ice which beach do you sail at so I can be sure to avoid it in the future?
Man not a boy ;-)
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
30 September '09 | 2:07pm
Come on hot ice now the ehat has gone who ARE you ?? would love to know who startted this !!
Cold Ice
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
30 September '09 | 7:25pm
This is really dragging on now. You can tell it hasn't been windy, and looking for a positive in all this, I guess these frustrations all boil down to everybody sharing the same passion. Windsurfing!

I like marmite, and therefore eat it. Thats my choice. Some of my friends don't like it, and they don't eat it.

Same can be said for the tests really, not everybody is going to be happy with the end results, whether they have a commercial interest or not, but I guess thats why they are what they are. Think it's windy this weekend, so hopefully we can all get wet again!

Move along now!
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
30 September '09 | 11:04pm
yeah really
this is old now.
some agree, some don't
some like the clones, some think they are a gimmick
whatever, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and the forum is a place where you should be able to air those thoughts.

i welcome all this, sure, people shouldn't cross the line, but people being passionate about windsurfing is a great thing
and nothing good ever gets done without generating a few haters / sceptics, and they should be free to say what they wish

hopefully, when hot ice believes he has read a *good* test, he'll be the first to add his support to boardseeker.
man not a boy
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
1 October '09 | 9:09am
Yes teenybopper i agree but who is he ??

Hey looks like wind on Saturday. at last.
The Canadian Perspective
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
1 October '09 | 9:22pm
Guys, honestly, this is sad to the point that its pathetic. This thread has gone way too far and if i was the moderator i would have deleted this thread a long time ago, and since the moderator hasnt i sudjest they do so now. Hot Ice, heres a little trick i would use if i where you, GET OVER YOUR EGO AND STOP POSTING ON THIS THREAD! your not helping yourself, your reputation or the magazines your a fan of. Serously, has the boardseeker forum turned into a second grade playground, most of us are grown up here, lets try to act that way and put this dum thread to rest once and for all. im personaly sick of it popping up all the time, some people want to use this forum for constructive posts and helping out people who would like advice on gear and techniques. personaly i am a fan of the tests and find them not only usefull but entertaining as well and unlikesome tests, boards for one, they are also free for non suscribers that are just doing some research on the net about new gear they want to buy. ceep it up adrian and please put one up on the new north sails mast base??? it looks sick, does it actualy have any possitive effects on ones sailing? i honestly dont see why this stupid grudge match has to go on!
Hot Ice
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
2 October '09 | 1:04am
teenybopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah really
> this is old now.
> some agree, some don't
> some like the clones, some think they are a
> gimmick
> whatever, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and
> the forum is a place where you should be able to
> air those thoughts.
>
> i welcome all this, sure, people shouldn't cross
> the line, but people being passionate about
> windsurfing is a great thing
> and nothing good ever gets done without generating
> a few haters / sceptics, and they should be free
> to say what they wish
>
> hopefully, when hot ice believes he has read a
> *good* test, he'll be the first to add his support
> to boardseeker.


I agree with you completely.

It is old, people are entitled to their opinion and yes I am sure that more than one person thinks the clones are a gimmick.

If we all sit around, pat each other on the back and say everything is perfect then mediocrity is rewarded.

Yes I am more than happy to support Boardseekers. I have already said on this thread that their videos, live competition reports and their freestyle board test are excellent.

The thing that amazes me most is how blind people are to any improvements Boardseekers could make and indeed how quick people are to believe only one side of the story.

The danger is that many people on this thread will end up as clones themselves, thinking and acting alike with no tolerance for a difference in opinion.

I believe Boardseekers is a good site with a great potential. I wish them well.
Happy Frank
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
2 October '09 | 12:25pm
Hot Ice,

Man you really do need a girlfriend!

Thing is that your pretty right about people's views and healthy criticism. But with regard to us all becoming 'cloned', man you really worry tooo much about the little things in life. But dont worry....I have already guessed your response to my comments, they go something like:

[Headmaster voice] "Happy Frank, I respect your opinions, I am the first to commend and accept your views are not the same as mine, but if we all allow ourselves to suffer the slings of mediocrity and simply accept the views of the clones, then it is the beginning of the free world, Windsurfers human rights will suffer, empires will fall, Worlds will collapse, the clones will take over local government, the country and eventually the earth, we will all become human slaves to the Clones, I have seen this epiphany...I watched planet of the Apes...oh yes, it started with chimps drinking PG Tips but will end in a monkey world of pain........"

Seriously, I agree with recent posts: you need to focus on finding a good woman, burning the preaching box and get some waves. Stop talking to us like you are our headmaster. Leave the patronising preaching to the StarboardTushy wonders at Boards.

And before you respond....yes we think Starboard and Tushys are wonderful....no really we do!!!!

Happy Frank (and I have been!)
Re: 5.3 Power Wave Sail Test Men or Boys ?
11 October '09 | 3:41pm
Hi everyone,

I ready that you are about to do 4.2 test and that you don't have Force. I have 08 Force almost new and I'm wondering if I could somehow borrow it to you. The Force hasn't change much since 08 based on what it's said on Naish websites....
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