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Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
10 March '10 | 10:25am
Should we write off the test???
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
10 March '10 | 5:55pm
I heard a rumour that they're really close now.
probably manufacturers getting a bit shirty and taking their time responding.
it's taken ages, sure. but still, we're british, we love to wait.
Goose
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
10 March '10 | 7:35pm
I´m not brittish....I hate to wait...
Hot Ice
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
11 March '10 | 12:41am
smiley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that the problem is that the longer it
> takes the more one suspects that there has been a
> lot of 'input' from the manufacturers over the
> write ups, which in turn devalues the conclusions.
> Shame really as the other tests have been very
> good and this was the last place that one could
> find objective tests rather than 'advertorials'.

You may be correct. However I think it is more a case of professionals deliver on their promises and amateurs make excuses.

As this has dragged on for so long now if I was in their position I would be embarrassed.

They have in the pass produced some excellent tests.

It’s just a shame they now appear to take their readership for granted.
drm
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
11 March '10 | 12:03pm
teenybopper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard a rumour that they're really close now.
> probably manufacturers getting a bit shirty and
> taking their time responding.
> it's taken ages, sure. but still, we're british,
> we love to wait.


Working for a British owned company, that post surely explains a lot... not only do you love to wait, there seem to be some kind of collective rush and mental reward in your population in doing things as late as humanly possible, and perhaps even stretching it beyound that. Every time. Frustrated? Me? Noooooo. I love the British, ha, ha!

I normally am late with stuff, and constantly refer to the word "deadline" as the only thing that can make me do my job. Have to do it now, or I am dead. But, lately I must admit to having been seriously outdone by my colleagues in the UK...

The only thing that will help me from being banned from this forum now is the English sense of humour, thank God for that! And, somehow, these days I understand much better how you have developed that fantastic sense of humour... pure survival...

Now, where is the test? It is going to be a good one, perhaps the most eagerly awaited in windsurfing history, ah!
adrian@boardseeker
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
11 March '10 | 1:08pm
Ok, ok...the wave board test will be live next week. That is a definite!

Seeing as there has been no wind for about 4 months and none for the foreseeable future, hopefully no-one will have been too affected by its lateness!

Once its out, I'm off to recover from the stress of checking this forum on a daily basis!!

Later today we will release the graphics poll results from the latest 010 sail test, which has some pretty interesting results - check back this afternoon for that.
drm
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
11 March '10 | 1:25pm
Wohooo, can't wait! Or maybe I can!
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
11 March '10 | 5:24pm
Hey Adrian,

Any feedback you can give on the Fanatic New Wave single 76l and the Tabou Pocket 75l. I've go to make my purchase ahead of the test next week. I'm 72 kgs looking for an all around waveboard for all kinds of wave conditions (perfect side off logo high to onshore mush). The board will also be used about 10% bump and jump when its too windy and choppy for my freestyle. Sails up to 5.3 but mostly 4.7.

Thanks
adrian@boardseeker
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
11 March '10 | 5:49pm
Is there a specific reason you are looking only for a single fin? Am pretty sure you will find twin fins actually have more allround capability - better control in windy conditions, able to use a bigger sized board with the same sail size (as they are more maneuverable), looser on the wave and generally make smaller wave conditions more fun.

I would seriously consider a twin fin if I was in your position - especially considering you are only 72kg's.

If you are stuck on the single fin theme, you will find the Fanatic and Tabou quite different. The Tabou feels like a board that lives up to its name. It is compact underfoot, surfy in feel and tight turning for a single fin. However in a straight line, it can feel a bit sticky until powered up and isn't as fast as the Fanatic.

The Fanatic is faster in a straightline, smoother through longer arced turns on the wave and quicker to plane than the Tabou. It isnt quite as compact and tight turning on the wave (but if you want this, you should probably be looking at a twin fin anyway) and in rougher conditions, the ride isnt quite as settled as the Tabou...

If you need any more specific info, let me know...good luck!
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
11 March '10 | 9:06pm
Adrian, Thanks for your reply! I am thinking of single fin for a bunch of reasons all of which are based on what I have read on-line since I haven't ridden a twin or a quad. All of my assumptions could be wrong - please correct me where needed:

1. Single fins are better upwind than twins - therefore more waves.
2. Single fins are better for large variety of conditions including the 10% I will use it in flat water.
3. Single fins have a more agile nimble feel riding higher in the water.
4. Single fins are better at jumping.
5. I'm totally confused between quads and twins and since I just can't figure it out I might as well go with what I know.
6. A good single fin has a better guarantee for an ok resale value over today's multifin boards that may be considered dated in 1 year. I can always sell a 76l wave board to somebody who wants to use it for B&J where if I buy the wrong quad I'll be SOL.
7. A good single fin is a better board to develop my style as a wavesailor. In other words I may not be good enough to really appreciate what a quatro quad can do. Although I'm not bad - I am now linking decent tight turns and am getting aerials. I ride with a pretty aggressive slashy style.

Be great if you can correct any of my assumptions above and toss a couple of other recommendations into my ring!
drm
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
12 March '10 | 8:25am
Wales Tales Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adrian, Thanks for your reply! I am thinking of
> single fin for a bunch of reasons all of which are
> based on what I have read on-line since I haven't
> ridden a twin or a quad. All of my assumptions
> could be wrong - please correct me where needed:
>
> 1. Single fins are better upwind than twins -
> therefore more waves.
Yes and no. Underpowered - yes. Powered or well powered, no. Depends on boards shape and fins, of course. You really need to move the mastbase forward to get a twin go upwind better, fins further back also helps (more directional stability). And it is so much about technique, some guys just fly upwind no matter what kind of board they are on... I am not one of them... but, I'd say that since you can get away with using a slightly larger twin than single in similar conditions, this equals things quite a bit.
> 2. Single fins are better for large variety of
> conditions including the 10% I will use it in flat
> water.
My twin is OK on flat water, but yes - I would prefer a single fin on flatwater
> 3. Single fins have a more agile nimble feel
> riding higher in the water.
Single fins, normally, ride higher in the water, and hav a more agile nimble feel going straight. On a wave, "agile" and "nimble" are two words that I would use to describe how a twin works vs a single...
> 4. Single fins are better at jumping.
Yes, easier to load up the fin and track up on that wave. There are twins that are good jumpers, though.
> 5. I'm totally confused between quads and twins
> and since I just can't figure it out I might as
> well go with what I know.
Agree, But, sometimes trying something new opens up new perspectives...
> 6. A good single fin has a better guarantee for
> an ok resale value over today's multifin boards
> that may be considered dated in 1 year. I can
> always sell a 76l wave board to somebody who wants
> to use it for B&J where if I buy the wrong quad
> I'll be SOL.
Agree, might be a slightly higher risk getting something new. A twin isn't that new, though. I feel the same thing as you do about quads...
> 7. A good single fin is a better board to develop
> my style as a wavesailor. In other words I may
> not be good enough to really appreciate what a
> quatro quad can do. Although I'm not bad - I am
> now linking decent tight turns and am getting
> aerials. I ride with a pretty aggressive slashy
> style.
Here, I actually do not agree at all. I am not much of a wavesailor, but going for a twin really has helped my to improve my wavesailing. I find it easier to adjust the turn on a wave, get more and better top turns. Generally, I find single fins more demanding to ride than twins. However, a good bottom turn on a single is nicer than on a twin. But doing top-turns on a twin is just so much fun, and you get away with stuff that a single just doesn't allow (at least I am not allowed...)
>
> Be great if you can correct any of my assumptions
> above and toss a couple of other recommendations
> into my ring!

Just gave some of my thoughts above. Average wavesailor, have tried quite a few boards though, weigh 77 kgs... Own a 90 l twin, have sailed 82 and 74 litres about 10 sessions. Own a 75 litre single, which I will change to a twin (perhaps quad...).
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
12 March '10 | 6:47pm
Hey DRM. Thanks for your very clear insight - this is very helpfull!

One of my big questions now has to do with quads vs. twins....

Since it seems that the pros are now mostly using either singles or quads am I correct in assuming that the twins are becoming more of a specialists tool for small mushy side shore and that the average wavesailor like you or me will benefit most from the better overall performance of a quad?

With that said I have been pondering the quatro tempo. But I'm really hesitant to pull the trigger on a twin if the market is really shifting to quads. Again I really don't want to get stuck with a board I can't sell in a year.

As for quads it seems like we are pretty early in the learning curve and that some product has been a bit rushed to market. I must say that conceptually the starboard quad setup which more closely resembles a quad fin surf board makes more sense than the quatro quad which is really a twin with additional thrusters. To my eyes it seems like the quatro quad approach is an attempt to make a twin fin sail more like a single fin because the thrusters help with upwind performance and give the board more grip in the bottom turn. Does this mean that the quatro approach has resulted from an r&d dead end that is now trying to "fix" the problems with twin? Or maybe its a process that is naturally evolving the benefits of a twin fin??

So I'm more keen on the starboard which seems to derive inspiration from quad surfboard design where the fins really work to channel water through the middle of the board. However, what turns me off about the starboards is that they seem to have purposefully designed the 76l as a quad where the smaller 71l seems like an evo that they just stuck four fins on. Did they run out of time in developing the smaller volume quads and just rush these to market? I also must admit that I'm a bit freaked by the width of the starboard 76l. For a lightweight like myself it looks like a fishy light wind small wave board and nothing else.

But I could be totally wrong about all this. And again I have no experience riding any on these boards so all my thoughts here are questions as opposed to statements. This is what happens when you can't go sailing and your mind get polluted by all info and mis-info that one get on-line. The minds wanders
Zozl
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
12 March '10 | 10:54pm
Hey Wales Tales,

I think that concerning quads, you have it really wrong...
First you can just see what the boardseeker first impression on the Quatro quad was :
"In proper down-the-line conditions, there is no doubting that the Quatro Quad is the best board we have ever sailed."
That said, here are my own 2 cents...You are completely putting aside the fact that a set of fins go with a rocker. The quatro quad differs for example from the JP quad, for which the shape of the board is the same, twin or quad. The Quatro Quad has a completely different rocker line and volume distribution than the twins. So if anything, there is actually much more R&D there than for other quads. I have had in my hands both twins and quads...and they are completely different. Furthermore, the fins of the quatro quad have nothing to do with the fins they have on a twin. Different size, profile...again, it's all studied to fit together with the shape of the board.
Too many people forget that in multifin boards, the fins aren't everything !!
Finally, where I sail, there are both type of quads...Starboard like and quatro like..and I have more negative feedbacks from the Starboard than from any of the others...
And I would say it may be a coincidence, but Quatro, Fanatic, Tabou all have the same set up..so who is right really ? I don't know, I have not tried the Starboard. But I have sailed a Quatro...and it's nothing like a single and it's nothing like a twin !
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
13 March '10 | 12:01am
Hey Zozl,

Thanks for the insight as well. If you have some time it would be great to get your impressions of the quatro quad?

Thanks
otb
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
13 March '10 | 3:15am
Wales tales
I have ridden the Star quad 71 back to back with the evo 70 and Evilt twin 70 the last few months and would offer this opinion if you are interested in the Starboard option.

At 72kg for 4.7 sails and down you would be much happier on the 71 Q as it rides very well at your weight up to 5.3 sails.

The Q71 as a single fin is a brilliant shape for general sailing bump and jump and wavesailing plus jumping.
The shape is similar to the Evo 70 but not the quite same.
I thought of keeping the evo 70 as my high wind jumping and blasting board but have no use for it in waves now that I prefer the ET 70 in the surf. But If i had the convertible version of the Qd I would have kept it to partner the ET as the quad in single fin arrangement is a much better jumping board than the ET.
(I bought the straight quad version while a mate had the converter - I wish I had the converter now)

You can then have a very good single fin board for high winds and great wave riding and control, And have a quad fin board to experiament with as you get the skills, time and opportunity to learn with the board. The QD 70 does sail very well if you take the time to learn about it. I simply prefer the ET and have sold the QD and kept my original evo single for jumping.

Finally I would have to agree that as you are learning the wave riding skills - the single fin boards offer more allround user ease for the mixture of B&J and waves, and jumping. But as you are learning you are in the lucky position of not having any old school technique, past prejudices or preferences, and can therefore adapt to the new styles of board as your skills improve at the same time. Most of us learn to wave sail perhaps on boards that were not perfect for us - but we all learnt to adapt. So can you as you learn fresh with new concepts.

cheers
otb
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
13 March '10 | 3:23am
I should have added that I haven't sailed the single fin fanatic - only the twin. The pocket wave Tabou however is another great board. Again for small sails and allround ability at the 75 ltr range though I would highly recommend the Tabou da curve as this is a smooth riding and jumping machine being soft to ride but fast and easy in chop and such a lovely wave riding board from big to small radius turning.
cheers
Zozl
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
13 March '10 | 3:43am
I think it all depends what part of wave sailing has your preference...jumping or riding. I am much more into riding...so twins and quads seal the deal for me...because they may be a little less efficient at jumping, but when it comes down to riding waves, the fun is soooo much greater that it totally compensates (for me) anything...I am ready to have to work more for jumping high in order to have a super loose and fun board in riding.
But that IS a question of taste...you have to decide what it is that you like the most. That said, if you are into wave riding, nothing beats (according to me at least) a twin or a quad...
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
13 March '10 | 4:35am
Thanks to all for the great feedback everybody. So here is my final list of potential boards. I'm making a decision tomorrow.

Since I'm paralyzed in my decision why don't I just make it a vote. No kidding - I'll actually go and buy the board that the forum elects - Vox populi!!!!

Here are your choices (no write in votes - unless of course you are sure there is a better choice):

Starboard Quad 76l
Starboard Quad 71l Convertible Fin
Quatro Quad 75
Quatro Tempo 76
Tabou Pocket 75

JUST REMEMBER YOU ARE SELECTING A BOARD FOR ME:
72 kgs
Advanced sailor but beginner to intermediate wavesailor still in search of my wavesailing style. Although I do seem to have an agro slashy riding style and like to turn hard - often way too hard where I crash and burn alot. I'm a bit more back footed in my bottom turn but I am also getting better at placing my weight further forward and using the rails to keep more speed. I am now linking turns together and getting aerials off my top turn. But I'm basically a kook still.
4.2 - 5.3 sails (mostly sail 4.7)
Sail classic down the line side shore to slightly on-shore mushier waves. Waves can be anywhere from chest to mast high. Slightly above head high and a bit bigger is the norm.
There is usually a slog out the break and often a worse slog upwind to get back in.
Prefer riding to jumping but I do love to fly.
Probably use the board10% as a flat water high wind blaster to compliment my freestyle board.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/03/2010 | 7:16am by Wales Tales.
Shane Williams
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
13 March '10 | 10:28am
Wales Tales - are you from Wales? Where??

Not sure you can be given the description of conditions but if you are try Buckys at Rhossy and Puravida in Cardiff to demo them....

For me i would buy Quatro over Starboard cos they are in the ascendency....pioneering the twin/quad thing and also fashionable. Dropping the twin fin ET after 12mths did Starboard no favours for people who want to keep oney on resale value as well IMO (and this comes from someone with 2 starboard Evos).

In fact I think the tempo will be a great choice for you, as although a twinny it doesnt feel super super loose (ala mistral) and retains a lot of the single fin charecteristics that you seem to want in terms of blasting about and jumping but much improved wave riding for euro style conditions.

In terms of performance / availability I would add to that list the Fanatic twin, and the RRDs twin.
As said, I have a mistral twin that rips (IMO) but no longer made.

As to Twin V Quad V Single. As said by all....if you want to improve riding then i would not hesitate to get a twin...makes initiating turns easier and soooo much looser on a wave. This might not be wanted on big fast waves (hookipa etc) but on smaller slower waves as per europe it enlivens your riding. Im not sure where quads fit into the equation if im honest (esp sailing in Wales not maui) as i havent tried one.... for sure i will stick with twinnys for now as they simply make riding fun / easier for us intermediates.

PS
One other thing - for twinnys you can go bigger than normal i reckon, as their top end is so good and theyre looser than their size implies. As an example, i have a mistral 92 and for the last 12mths havent used anything else...for sure if you get a lot of 4.5 days then its too big but for flukey cross off, then a little extra volume is very useful and less noticeable on the twins when riding IMO.
Sheep
Re: Boardseeker waveboard tests?
13 March '10 | 11:38am
Hello Wales tales

Unless you are made of money I would go and see Scott at Rat Rigs in Cardiff. He has a Starboard Quad 76 and 71 both convertibe - ex display- that he'll sell you at a very fair price.
They're open 10-5 tue sat and their phone # is 02920621309

Cheers
Sheep
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