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Waveboards - a matter of trust

Posted by Salesman 
Salesman
Waveboards - a matter of trust
9 December '09 | 10:45am
Hi folks.

I'm curious to know how people feel on this subject.

When the Starboard Evo came outin 2003 it was a pretty radical departure but a genuine rough diamond. Over the next 6 years it got more and more refined until it's now killed off by the quad.
Through this development cycle we have had some great "conventional" wave boards available which have been the result of many years of cumulative r&d.

So we have the legend that is Dave Horrocks winning a starboard of his choice. A single fin "conventional" board - the Kode 74.
What does that tell mr average wave sailor about the "new amaaaazing twin / quad/ thruster" boards. That they are not as good. OR is it that there have been some absolute pigs of twin fin boards released over the last 2 seasons and there may be an issue of trust about whether the multifin boards will be here today and gone tommorow.

What does everyone think are you :

1) all happy that the wave board market is now super diverse so you can get a radical and different machine and £1000- £1500 represents fair value and you're not bothered about the resale.

or

2) a bit unsure of whether you should even buy one. These new shapes have only been around a couple of years and they are depreciating rapidly, plus they are so much cash and will they really make you sail any better than a 2 year old Jp realworld wave (or similar) that you can get for £450 from your local store.

really appreciate the feedback from you guys

Cheers
Eddie
multifinlover
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
9 December '09 | 11:32am
I think Dave going for the Code may be more to do with which Starboards are best rather than a general reflection on Twins/quads, and perhaps that most of his sailing is at Rossy with cross-on jumping?
Chris Martin
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
9 December '09 | 5:24pm
Maybe it's more to do with what Starboard had spare stock to give away?
darius
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
9 December '09 | 8:28pm
OK salesman

I completeley get the point you are making and if i'm honest i think some manufacturers are taking us for a ride and fully ripping us off into the bargain.

Im pretty happy that i'd actually buy a jp twinser (kauli's one) as that is building on a solid base and actually feels a great allround board, i'm also considering a Kode 74 myself as im just not that trusting of these companies keeping the multi fins for the long haul.

I did a lot of slalom sailing in the '90's and dont want my wave kit to go up it's own backside like my "anders bringdal copello" boards that i simply had to have when in truth i'd have been faster and had more fun on a screamer 1.

Acutally i just decided what to do - il keep my 2007 evo 70 and wait to see what 2011 brings- maybe better prices.

Cheers
D
Hot Ice
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
10 December '09 | 1:02am
It’s fun discussing the multi fin boards. I am sure the upcoming wave board test will generate mountains of comments and interest unlike the recent 2010 wave sail test.

Everyone has a view on multi fin boards. The interesting thing that I have observed is that the more experienced a windsurfer is the more open minded they are on multi fin boards. They say things like they are not better but rather a different experience. That there are positives and negatives and that it is a personal choice.

I spent nine weeks in the Canaries this year year and was struck by the fact that 95 % of the local hotshots were using single fin wave boards. The standout local PWA wave sailor was also using a single fin wave board. Now this guys wave riding was unbelievable and he did moves on the wave that left people spell bound and all on a single fin wave board.

The 2009 PWA wave champion also uses a single fin wave board.

I never thought boards were good value and with the devaluation of the Pound they give even less value for money. However I don’t believe that people in the industry are making a fortune or ripping us off. Windsurfing is a cottage industry and has many poor practices that we all end up paying for.

As for sailing better I feel the number one priority is more time on the water.
waite
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
10 December '09 | 3:22pm
I love my twin (cue Jedward comments) Have to say the more I use my twin, the more I want to sail it - I think they are more important in bigger sizes because they give you the loosness of a really small board with all the benefits of having more volume under your feet.
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
10 December '09 | 7:04pm
totally agree with waite. i looove my twinny (78 in case you care) and prior to that thought nothing would ever better my acid (77 likewise) but when it broke i went down the evo line and almost gave up, hateful, hateful thing. until one day over the horizon came the love of my life. never had a board been so easy to get along with, dependable, eager to help at every opportunity and when i finally realised i could do it; was as radical as i could ever ask. (its a fanatic if you must know) so from my perspective twins are in for ever, or until it breaks - as for the other line of discussion i'll never be able to buy a new one!! £1300 for a board!?! has the world gone mad???? cottaging industry or not it does feel like we are getting bummed. well you asked . . . ..
pozopozo
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
11 December '09 | 10:05am
Hi,

I have been on a twin now for a year, 82L and 90L both rrs. They do bring you
on with your riding and are very positive to ride. I personally have not noticed that i
am not planning or jumping as normal for me. My old 93L jp wfs would need to be
eased into the turn and half the time would buck you off if pushed to hard, but does plane
earlier than the 90L twin and is a better sail in chopy conditions, horses for courses.
I love my twins and would not go back and i must say i have a small custom single fin which
again i love and can take over if the conditions get to much for the 82 twin, but again horses for courses as
the custom is 70-75L and 52 wide.
As far as cost is concerned, i do think that when i need to replace them that i may go down the custom route as
i do get some big jumps in and need a board i can trust in strength
and having tried the twins, i would have a custom designed around my rrd's, my custom is now over 5 years old
and i have it touched up every year, but still as solid as a rock and don't feel that it has still been outdated.
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
12 December '09 | 11:51pm
Business is businesses - it's all about the marketing. I don't believe the Kode is much better than other boards cause it has pretty common shape. If you want a board that is extremely different it would make sense that it had to be much different in shape as well....

I think that if people would demand just multifing boards there wouldn't be anyone selling single fin even if single fin would be better choice than single fin. - get it?

Speed always matters and for that single fin is better.


"As for sailing better I feel the number one priority is more time on the water."

Actually I think when someone shows you what are you doing wrong is the thing that makes the huge difference.....
Jan
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
13 January '10 | 4:58pm
pozopozo- I found out that twins (I also ride RRD twin, 82l) need a bit different technique to go planning faster, You have to make your legs a bit more straught (not too much) and move Your body a bit towards the nose as twins have thinner tails. Also if it comes to waveriding You have to ride more on Your front foot to keep the speed. It works out for me so I think it will work out for others also, I'm 6'0 and I weigh 77kg (in case it's usefull for You).

Cheers!
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
14 January '10 | 4:10pm
It's basically the same reason we got a bit more excited by the Exocet 3X, less of a risk allround, it can be used multi in it's tri config, or revert to single and with the bonus of thruster as a third option, catering for even more taste. Being based on a firm favorite which was the Exowave it's not at risk of being a fashion fad. Tri's in thruster form have been around since the dawn of time, even "I only use singles' Robby Naish used to be a thruster fan.

So a solid choice as a tryout fr anyone wanting to go down the multi small fin route whilst retaining the single option for conditions that demand it.

Excuse the blatant pimp, but it is relevant to the thread and we've had experience in the past of twins initially being enthused about then falling from favour and back then after the intial 100 or so sold the rest got converted to tris, just goes to show what goes round comes round.
otb
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
10 March '10 | 8:43am
When twin fin boards first returned, I was a punter that said "I bet they won't be here in 2 years time, it is just a fad."
I am happy to admit I was wrong. Or right? ie Starboard!

In Starboards case I think we were taken for a ride.
They knew JP was going to go quads and being the "innovative company" couldn't let JP go first. So they rushed into market a quad of their own. The twins were not rating well enough in the tests, so why not. Unfortunately for Starboard the market was slow to take up their twins, but those that did, do really like them and were pissed off when they found out they could not get an updated version for 2010.
Funny enough that in an area of Starboard saturation, the take up of quads has been pitifull. Many tried them, then got rid of them, soon after. This opened the market up to other brands which the sailors turned to.

On the Flip side if you seriously think the JP twins and quads are Kauli style - you are sucked in by the marketing bollox. JP would have to modifiy the shapes they use in production from the boards Kauli uses by 10% or they would be ripping off Kieth T's designs (which Kauli still uses). Despite the fact that Kauli doesn't ride boards bigger than 65ltrs. You could change the rocker, outline or concaves i guess but it then is a different board.

So to answer the original question - I believe if you follow the marketing party line, you are being taken for a ride with the new multi fin boards.

BUT - having been able to ride many boards in the last few months I have a real belief in multi fin boards and their place in the market.
Like many others I changed to evos when they came out and my sailing impoved. I had found my perfect board for my conditions. Over the next few years I rode a few other types of boards briefly, but couldn't part with the evos. At 75 kgs my favourite board was the 07 evo 70, and 06 & 08 75.

Then I moved to evil twins 74 and 70 and a kode 80 last year.
This season I found it impossible to want to ride my evos again having moved to twin fins.
Single fins are still great for jumping, bump and jump grooveriding and still have a place in certain conditions and locations. But the twins were way better for me in riding conditions for all the reasons repeated in positive reviews in the past year.

Then came 2010. I was gutted when the ET was dropped but tried the new quad. When the convertible quad was launched I felt that Star haven't made their mind up - or had not got the board right yet - if they were giving an convertible / compromise. Now I am wishing I had bought the convertible board!

I felt the quad was very good in certain conditions and hated it in others. With the option of the single fin I could have got rid of the old 07 evo and used the quad as a one only board and changed it as conditons suited. The problem for me was the quad was only about 90% as good as my twin fin for my riding ability
in as much as the twin was more forgiving and reliable in all conditions.

I hardly used the single fin kode at all this season except for bump jump conditions. I would not be upset to be stuck with this as a one all round board but given a choice would rather have two boards. One a twin and one single.

The big difference for me this year has been trying some other brands and seeing the relevance of all the different styles. And they are relevant. The boards like the quads are great in the right conditions, the twins in big sizes are fantastic in lightwind, small mush and so much better than a single fin for lightwieghts trying to turn big boards. I loved the smoothness of the RRD 82 or the speed of the quattro. For those sailors that think twins are too skatey the thruster boards like the RRD offer single fin style drive and still give a bit more speed but sit in the middle between singles and twins in looseness. The more boards I try, the more I like and the harder to choose a perfect quiver. Also the more boards I would be happy with though.

I feel that there are some great single fin boards out there that would be excellent one board options. But each of the multi fin boards has a definate place to suit one rider over another and the fact that we all now have a real choice is fantastic. None of us will ever agree on the one perfect board - but we don't have to - with a great range available to us. We can get what we need.

Finally, I hate to say it but test reviews will never help truly define the board for any one completely. You have to try to ride as many as possible to find the differences. There have been boards reviewed which I have loved while the review cained it, and best reviews of boards I hated.
I think we get lost in the idea of one board for all conditions because of the cost of boards and continual obsolescence. If they were cheaper maybe we would accept the concept of such variations, like with surf boards and the massive variations available.
Lemon
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
10 March '10 | 10:56am
great information, you never find out with tests the long term role
Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
15 July '10 | 10:14am
I think the idea that Miller is trying to get across to the audience is that, today's society is filled with people who don't get the credit they deserve for the "little things" they do in life. These people in society are like "unsung heroes" because the hard work they do might be overlooked. If others around you see that you are not living up to their expectations or their standards, they may put you down instead of giving you the credit you deserve. Other times we do not appreciate the "little things" that our loved ones do for us until it is too late. Usually these little things impact us the most.

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Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
19 August '10 | 5:26am
Sounds good to me....

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Re: Waveboards - a matter of trust
27 February '11 | 10:36am
Well, I would like to add to the posts on this topic that for me the switch from single fin boards to (3 fin) multifin has been quite a revelation in terms of sailing feel and style. A couple of years ago i purchased a witchcraft waveboard (84l) to replace my tabou madcow 82l. The madcow was praised at the time in the german surfmagazine, for it's (euro-conditions) performance. It was a very fast and early planing board indeed, but the3-fin board design had raised my interest so without testing I took the plunge. The biggest surprise was that the 3-fin board sailed equal or better upwind than the single fin, planed as early, and had nearly the same top speed. Tight turns were much better in the waves; the sailing style and feel on the water is different than single fin, but after getting used to I wouldn't want to go back. To describe the differences in style and feel is difficult between single and multifin, so if you're interested my advice would be to lend or hire a couple of boards and see if you like it or not.

cheers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2011 | 10:39am by joris.
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